Is PPP possible?

General
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Player Pump Player (PPP) is a term coined by Meow. The opposite of PPP is PVP. Most tokens in crypto are PVP, most money making opportunities in crypto are PVP; someone gets an entry earlier and dumps on you later or someone has to lose money for you to make money. If you sold $100k in profits on a memecoin and it goes to 0, the people that bought off you lost all their money. If you sold an NFT for 200 SOL, the person that bought likely lost all their money.

Hypotheses in relation to PPP:

  • Every token has a mix of PVP and PPP community.
  • The ratio of PVP:PPP members varies over time.
  • A large % of supply in the hands of PPP holders + solid token fundamentals is what pumps the token.
  • Solid token fundamentals are from knowing what the market wants to buy or will buy, i.e. no dev holding, first cat coin on SOL, most memeable token on BTC etc. This is the most important factor as a PPP community can’t pump a token if new buyers don’t believe in the fundamentals - token trends to 0 as the PPP community loses hope and crumbles until no one is left.

Explanation
Memecoins start with a large proportion of PVP holders. Some believe in the potential and turn into PPP holders (creating memes, art and marketing etc). Then accumulation of the token by the PPP community happens. If fundamentals are strong, token pumps following accumulation. PPP buyers then take profit at higher prices becoming PVP holders, decreasing the ratio of PPP holders and making the token more PVP. So our PPP token just turned PVP as people can sell.

Hence, can a PPP token be profitable for anyone without turning PVP token for someone?

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Yeah this is exactly what i thought, Im not sure “everyone wins” financially?

Maybe you can win if you rent driven by financial motives, however, most are

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Value has to be created to generate income, otherwise we end up in a zero-sum economy where one person’s gain is another’s loss (PVP).

The PPP favors collaborative environments that enable the various players to share and develop know-how more effectively, and thus produce more wealth, whereas the PVP is stagnant and only produces a rotation of capital.

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If anyone can buy the token at any time but selling takes place on a specific day/time, then probably. Probably won’t be ethical though.

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Great point going to build on this a bit. Even if you sell at a given time, selling takes place and holders become PVP. Hence, being able to buy at any time and never being able to sell, up or sideways only = PPP :joy:

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Agreed, can’t see a scenario where everyone wins in PPP without the token turning PVP as most tokens are financially motivated!

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Great points. In real world examples, PPP tokens become stagnant after the token pumps and/or go to 0, similar to PVP - mockJUP is a good example. Hence why there is no such thing as a PPP token, always varied proportion between PPP and PVP.

birdeye.so_mockJUP_USD_2024-08-08_01-41-37
birdeye.so_mockJUP_USD_2024-08-08_01-41-371898×929 186 KB

There are however established tokens with strong fundamentals bringing in new buyers, WIF (leading dog coin), BONK (made Solana OGs thousands), POPCAT (leading cat coin)

birdeye.so_POPCAT_USD_2024-08-08_01-43-02
birdeye.so_POPCAT_USD_2024-08-08_01-43-021898×929 164 KB

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Hmm, what your wrote is very detailed and makes sense, but funny enough I think a little different “in the bigger picture” when I read “Is PPP possible”.

Hear me out, while it might almost be super offtopic how I view this, but on the flipside I have nothing to add to your thesis, as it already addresses the “actual general scope”.

Is PPP possible (my detached offtopic perspective)

I think it is possible, but not practiced at all. Many argue PPP to actually focus their PVP agenda, regardless if it makes sense or not.

There is a saying in the more traditional business “non crypto” world, that usually all kind of companies always just compete against each other, no matter if they even are in the same sector or want each others customers or not. A phone company will compete against luxery food, because both view it on the premise that each one wants the customers money, and if it is spent on the other side the chance decreases it is spent on them.

While at the same time in the “Sustainability Sector”, the companies there do not care about competition but rather collaborate to push each other forward together.
In a very simplified mindset they do not think lets say that sending a customer to a “care for the oceanfish” campaign will necessarily mean that they get less business on their “plant a tree for the climate” campaign…
…they have a good understanding that collaborating and sharing, is the best way to push forward, because ultimately, every customer you win for one “sustainability cause” is a bit like converted and the chance increases he funnels more into that general route.

Wooooow that got offtopic, but what I mean is that:

Communities like in Jupiter or more holistically in Crypto could learn a lot from this, but they all refuse. On surface level just here on Jupresearch I see the Introductions for LFG all polite and nice to each other, while in reality it is pretty much cut-throat.

From 30 Intros there are only 3 that go and give likes and comments to other projects, while everyone else is really just either tunnel-visioned or do not begrudge the others even a spark of engagement or a few likes.

And lets not even dive into the topic that 30% of the intros consist of 50% comments from first timer accounts that never show face in Jupresearch again.

It is PVP on every level, if it is the tokens, the engagement, user attention, everything.

My idea of copying the “happy come together” mentality of the Sustainability sector might be a bit glorified, ambitious and borderline naive. And simply put it probably does not apply to 50% of Cryptos.

But the rest could learn and adapt a bit from it, also here on Jupiter.

I would like to see 3 blockchain projects with shared ESG topics come together and just collaborate, or heck even a DePIN project with a Memecoin. Or maybe some crossover between DeFi and RWA, whatever.

Finances are always PVP to some extent, but as communities and projects there could be a lot real PPP, and not just this play and pretend, which actually I see more faked politeness than anything real and tangible.

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How would it be possible everybody to ‘‘win’’ since all trading,finance stuff is based on the principle ‘‘if someone wins there’s someone on the other side losing’’.

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Solana is the best example of a PPP coin. Everyone holding sol is and will be a winner, and it’s because of genuine excitement about everything it means that you’d recommend it to others, not to pump your sol bags. That would be the destination. And it’s a long journey, PPP is just a seed now but with proper care it can become something. This is why Jupiter’s values and ethos, commitment to transparency, initiatives like CAT, and most important communities valuing this concept, are all great steps towards that ideal imo…

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Yup, you either someones exit liq, or you be theirs. i do find the PPP concept somewhat cringe

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:rofl: No idea why it triggers me, I mean in a funny way I just read that blunt sentence end and laughed for 2 minutes straight loooool

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Do you believe that if you invest in BTC and just held, with a long term perspective you will be eventually be in profit ?

If you agree, i think that’s the vision of PPP
Make solid projects that will eventually grow fundamentally and everyone will get a chance to take profits regardless of their entry points.
Ofcourse it will still be PVP to maximise profits but the goal is to grow real projects with real utility that can continuously grow for years so that everyone part of it all grow together.

That’s just my interpretation of how it can be possible, and i feel solid projects in DePIN and RWA sector can do that. In some rare cases even a memecoin that is deeply ingrained into the ecosystem like BONK can make a solid case for this theory

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Yes of course! Agreed. PPP is possible just not with 100% PPP community, there will always be PVP for the reasons I outlined. One could argue when holding tokens long term, PVP activity becomes irrelevant. However, dips on BTC and SOL -80% at times provide evidence for solid PVP even with strong PPP believers, so I don’t think PPP is black and white or possible on its own due to the massive dips from PVP. A team can have PPP intentions of growing for years but end up failing (LUNA/TERRA) - in this scenario everyone doesn’t get to exit.

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Theoretically PPP is cool but markets are inherently PVP so in reality people will seek exit liquidity and the token will naturally trend to 0. (im a cynic tho)

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Its all about narrative & memeability (the relationship it has to the real world) thats why WIF/BODEN/TRUMP tokens have all done well

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Of course, there’s no such thing as a pure PPP or PVP!

This is precisely a fundamental point: lateralization generates fees!

PPP projects are the most efficient in this respect over the long term, which is logical since they aim to build something sustainable.

It’s a virtuous circle:

  • Wealth creation attracts investors.
  • Investments bring relative financial stability to the project, while market volatility generates fees.
  • Good redistribution within the community keeps its members motivated.

→ Only PPP projects receive the revenues needed to survive construction-creation cycles.

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i think PPP token can indeed be profitable without turning into PVP, but it requires careful alignment of incentives and strong fundamentals. As discussed in the last features on Meteora X Moonshot, the key is creating mechanisms that allow holders and creators to benefit over the long term without relying on predatory trading behaviors.

For example, at the launch by enabling fees to be claimed on locked liquidity, Meteora introduces royalty-like revenue streams for creators. This approach shifts the focus from short-term gains to long-term growth, allowing creators to drive attention to their tokens without needing large treasuries or advanced trading skills. As a result, this creates a more sustainable ecosystem where the interests of PPP holders and creators are aligned. In such a system, even as some holders take profits, the token can retain its value because the community remains engaged and the token’s fundamentals are strong.

In essence, PPP token can maintain profitability and avoid becoming a PVP scenario by ensuring that the mechanisms in place encourage long-term value creation and community engagement rather than speculative trading

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The PPP principle can only be “fully successful” whenever the following logic is met:

holder benefit > purchase price.

with holder benefit being more or less inifite (never ends)

Is this possible? It is! if you take Madlads for example some has gained profit buy selling the NFT more expensive than purchased while the one that bought it received more benefits than the purchase price through holder benefits. Hereby both won → PPP

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Yes, 100%.

People need to have the feeling that they DONT Feel compelled to sell their token.

Either because they are;
-Bullish
-The utility of the token outweigh the price
-Expectation, the price will grow a lot higher
-Speculation around future utility

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